Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Manga--NOT Comics Salvation

A friend who knows my somewhat iconoclastic opinions about manga and its relationship to American comics directed me to this essay by The Comics Journal's Dirk Deppey. (Admittedly, the friend also knows my antipathy for nearly all things related to The Comics Journal, so the direction may have been made simply for the fun of watching me go ballistic reading Deppey's complete and utter misunderstandings of the relationship between the two forms of graphic storytelling.)


Let me make something in that last parenthetical remark perfectly clear: Manga are not comics. Both manga and comics are forms of graphic storytelling...but so are kids' picture books, but we wouldn't call those comics. (At least, I don't think most of us would--God knows what Deppey might think.) I think of the relationship between Euro-American comics and manga somewhat the way I think of the relationship between Euro-American drama and kabuki--both are forms of theater, but kabuki is not a form of drama in the traditional Euro-American sense.


But let's go directly to some of Deppey's specific comments, beginning with what I consider to be his "money quote":


With the emergence of manga as a dominant force in the American bookstore market, domestic comics producers are at long last questioning their previous publishing strategies.

To which I have to ask, "dominant over what?"


Certainly not over prose. Over American comics? OK--but so what? The bookstore market has never been where American comics make their money, and is unlikely to be anytime in the near future. American comics are based on a periodical format, not an album or collection format. Some might argue that's a failing, but unless they're interested in financing the shift to a different publishing model and revenue stream, the argument is a moot one, for now.


Deppey's explanations for that so-called dominance are equally bogus. He points out the success of manga among girls and attributes it to the form's "concentration on human interaction." First of all, the so-called success is pretty puny--most girls are still not reading any form of graphic storytelling, much preferring prose by a wide margin. The percentage of girls buying and reading manga is probably smaller than the percentage of boys buying and reading comics, and almost all of those girls are participating in a fad, not a movement.


At one level, Deppey even admits this, saying: "Scratch a modern-day manga fangirl, and you're likely to find someone who watched Sailor Moon when she was young." Might as well say, "Scratch a modern day male comics fan and you're likely to find someone who watched Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends when he was young." But the percentage of either group of viewers who moved on to reading graphic stories is in the single digits.


So what is the appeal of manga to this female crowd? Simply put--it's not American. It's foreign, it's exotic. To really get into it, it helps if you are willing to put in a lot of time learning at least rudimentary Japanese or learning about Japanese culture. The manga fangirls, to use Deppey's term, are the same group of girls who would have gotten into French cinema two decades ago.


I have two sons, one of whom is about to graduate from high schcol. (The other graduated two years ago.) I've watched their friends and what they're interested in. The manga fangirls fit the pattern I've just described--every one of them. And they're a tiny clique within the high school crowd of this typical suburban school district. The American comics industry has missed out on them? Small loss--in two years, virtually all of them will have given up on graphic storytelling in any form. And a prediction--there really won't be any big wave behind them...because nothing that's come from Japan in the past decade comes close to having the impact Sailor Moon had, and without something like that to stimulate interest, there's no market for the manga.


Further prediction: In five years, the currently burgeoning manga sections in bookstores will dwindle to two or three shelves...and the titles on the specialized anime racks in places like Suncoast Video will merge back in with the science-fiction or animated titles. The boomlet of interest in Japanese graphic culture will have died.


In the end, Deppey returns to the Journal's favorite whipping boy for the failure of American comics to succeed--the lack of a "single creative vision":

The vast majority of manga being reprinted in the United States reflect the vision of a single creator or set of creators. This isn't quite as inflexible a rule as that statement makes it sound -- many manga studios more closely resemble the "communal assembly line" employed by Will Eisner than they do a single artist sitting at a drawing table -- but even if the guiding force behind a given story (the manga-ka) is merely plotting and drawing the main characters' faces, there's still a single guiding force behind the story.

He contrasts this to a leading American title in this way:
If the X-Men films convinced you to pick up your first X-Men graphic novel, however, you'd be in for an entirely different experience. Your first exposure would depend upon which author's version of the series you pulled out of the stack, be it Stan Lee, Chris Claremont, Grant Morrison, Mark Millar or Chuck Austen, and the artwork would likely change from one artist to another within the book's pages. If you remained interested enough by what you read to buy a second one, that second volume would be as much of a crapshoot as the first, unless you very carefully observed which names were on the spine each time you invested your hard-earned dollars on a new book. The replaceable nature of the writers and artists, as dictated by the work-for-hire business practices upon which Marvel depends, actively discourages casual readers exactly to the extent that casual readers can never be sure what they get when they open an X-Men book.

The answer to this problem, it seems to me, is something that I know is antithetical to everything Deppey and the Journal believe: The return of a strong editorial hand in American comics, so that there is a consistent vision--the editor's. Of course, to the Journalistas, that's blasphemy...despite the fact that every successful periodical publication in history has benefited from such a strong hand--whether it was Harold Ross on The New Yorker, Henry Luce on Time, or even Gary Groth on The Comics Journal.


There's lots more I could get into about why manga and comics are two different forms of a larger medium (and maybe I will in a later posting), and about why the very different marketing and publishing models of American comics and manga imports make any comparison of their respective publishing success an "apples and oranges" thing.


For now, let me end this way: Manga is not, and never will be, the salvation of the comics form in America.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, I must admit that I don't know what to make of either Dirk's or your comments--guess I'll have to wait five years or so to see if your prediction about the state of manga sales comes true. I myself don't read manga, except for the occasional book by Ben Dunn, whose work I like a lot. I guess I look at manga as a genre, which it really is not--it's a style which includes many different genres, or so I've heard. I don't know how you can make predictions about how manga will fare, based on what seems to be anecdotal evidence, but that's not to say you won't be right. I think that American comics artists are not sympathetic with the manga style, so it would take a major makeover to have manga be the style of choice for American artists, and more importantly, for their audience. I basically think that manga will just be a small part of a mix, not a dominant force in the US industry, pretty close to your view, I guess. We'll see.

Allen Smith

Shawn Fumo said...

I have to say that I think you're off a bit here...

First, whether it is comics. Someone on another post elaborated on the western drama and kabuki dynamic, but I'm not sure how this would apply to comics. Most picture books have a very big structural difference from most comics. They usually have a picture and text on different pages, or at the least one pic per page. What is it about manga that makes it so radically different? That it goes from right to left? That it tends not be too wordy? That it is usually in black and white? I don't see how any of that makes it not be comics. There's also plenty of european comics with interesting styles. How can you say that French BD is a comic but then manga isn't?

It is easy to say that it is a fad that will go away soon and point to french cinema. But what about a more recent phenomenon? When video games were failing, Nintendo swept in. American game companies have made a comeback since then, but I don't see Japanese games going away any time soon. And those games are part of the cultural exchange that anime and manga are a part of. It might be useful to compare the current state of manga to American movies. We have a very strong movie market, to the point that we've frequently overpowered the local movies of various countries. Manga is a pretty strong force not just in Asia, but many european countries as well.

Plus, sure exoticism helps, but it isn't the only thing. Have you actually read any manga aimed at girls before? It is certainly more appealing to that group than 99% of American comic books. And I've seen plenty of older female comics bloggers who have gone "wow.. here's finally that speaks to me".

I'd say that people will be a lot less likely to drop manga on a whim than they would be with superhero comics at least. Why? Because of different genres and topics. I can easily switch between horror, sports, romance, sci-fi, etc, just like I would with novels. Hopefully publishers like Oni Press can continue the trend of more american comics like that, but superheros are just another genre...

As far as strong editorial hands, there is plenty of that in manga as well. Manga anthologies have frequent reader surveys and something that isn't popular is going to get booted. So there is certainly some amount of guiding that goes on. It is important to remember that in Japan, manga is just as serialized as American comics are, sometimes more so (Shonen Jump comes out weekly). We only see the collected volumes here, but that's not how they start.

The reason why I think these trends are important is because this is about the next generation. I think it is safe to say that most kids who read "graphic storytelling" are reading manga, male or female (I believe the median age of marvel/dc stuff is 26-35, while manga skews younger and is something like 60% female). And they are usually getting it from bookstores. And Tokyopop is starting to get people from that generation to make their own comics and release them in the same place.

It isn't so much about the change in the traditional system, as another system growing in a different area, potentially making the older system seem strange and irrelevant to the next generation of comic readers and creators.

Time will tell on who is right, but I don't seem manga disappearing any time soon. It won't keep growing at the pace it is now, but I doubt it'll crash either. Manga has a good system going in Japan to keep getting new readers and keep them as they grow older. If the American importers can follow that, it should work out.

And it isn't like this all popped up overnight. I'm 26 and I grew up with things like Voltron, Robotech, Legend of Zelda, Phantasy Star III, so all of this seems pretty normal to me. I'd assume it is even more so for the kids out there. Do you think that Hollywood is just a fad and every other country in the world will suddenly get bored and stop watching any American movies? Despite my issues with Hollywood, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Queenie Chan said...

Well, I'll have to agree with Shawn Fumo and say that I find your comparison between Kabuki and Euro/American-drama rather bizarre. This is because in terms of accessibility to the general (young) populance, Manga is actually easier to get into because of the proliferation of anime and manga. And of the many differing genres and art styles.

I won't sing praises about manga, because it has its fair share of weaknesses. But in your comparison with French cinema, you've missed an important point - French cinema is quirky and artistic (and not meant to appeal to everyone), whereas manga may be quirky to foreign viewers, but nowhere is it meant to be ARTISTIC (with exceptions, ofcourse). Instead, manga is mass-commercialised entertainment, and so is perfectly willing to pander to the tastes of viewers.

Whether that is a good thing or not is not within the scope of your article, but you can't deny the power and attraction of mass-entertainment.

yynderjohn said...

I think Shawn Fumo really nailed all the points. The only comment I have is that unlike the major American Companies (DC/Marvel), the Japanese have been successful in marketing and selling comics (manga) to society as a whole in Japan, where the american comics market is mainly young men and still a limited genre (superheroes)as a whole.
I do agree that I don't think manga will save american comics. I think it will force American companies to review how they do business and move the format from monthlies to the trade format.
The Japnese comics business model obviously works much better than t he American model (they sell millions of comics weekly, in a broad spectrum of genres)and I think their market share will continue to grow, though at a much slower pace. They are comics though :P

Shawn Clark said...

I'm sill curious as to how you will back up your claim that manga are not comics. Other than the fact that manga is from Japan, there's no difference, is there? Manga is based on a serialized release schedule too, it's just the collected versions (which are serials themselves) that we get here in the US.

So, if you're going to make such a claim, back it up. Otherwise, you just come off like you don't know what you're talking about.

Although, from you essay, I think that's pretty evident.

Anonymous said...

this is Chris Duffy

I think manga are comics (but I also think Kabuki is theater, so maybe I'm nuts)

I also think it's true that manga isn't sweeping the nation in the way that many would have you believe. I work at a magazine and do a lot of research about 10-12 year old readers and a clear majority don't know or care about manga. But the ones that love it are seriously into it--and I'll bet you they outnumber the number of Marvel/DC fans of the same age group.

That said, only time will tell if I'm totally wrong...but I do think there are CONTENT reasons for why manga is having a boom, or boomlet, right now.

Peace out, mo fos.

Matthew Fabb said...

And a prediction--there really won't be any big wave behind them...because nothing that's come from Japan in the past decade comes close to having the impact Sailor Moon had, and without something like that to stimulate interest, there's no market for the manga.

There doesn't seem to be anything big as Sailor Moon, but Saturday morning cartoons seem to be full of anime cartoons. So instead of one big Sailor Moon type show there's all sorts of small ones. Even American made cartoons are often trying to mimic anime cartoons, such as the new Teen Titans cartoon.

Also from reports from Comicon.com's Heidi MacDonald the manga crowd is already begining to include a second generation:
Otakon follow-up that mentions the growing manga

Here are other links about that Manga con that Heidi attended:
- Initial Otakon report
- Second Otakon report

That said I don't see manga as comics salvation, but I don't see it exactly going away anytime soon from what I've read.

Shawn Fumo said...

As for Sailor Moon, the anime certainly got the ball rolling for getting girls interested in anime and then manga.

I think it is relatively self-sufficiant at this point though. Once you have a big enough core of readers, they tell their friends, etc.

Plus, the best-selling manga at the moment in bookstores is Fruits Basket, which is shoujo (though with good cross-over appeal). It isn't like there haven't been any popular shoujo titles to come out since the ball started rolling..

And while there are some blockbusters, I agree that it is more of a variety of smaller titles at this point. IMO, I think that's actually a bit more healthy since not everything crashes if a couple of blockbusters fail..

Oliver said...

What Danny said.

You are an aesthetic racist who probably also thinks that anime isn't animation.

Puddles said...

"Manga" is the Japanese word for "comics."

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

Oliver:

Read closely--I never said anything about manga being inferior (or that matter, superior) to Euro-American comics. I said it was different. Would it be aesthetically racist for me to say that African folk music is different from opera?

I make no claims as to any of that. I'm making a distinction of type, not of value.

Anonymous said...

I don't know, Pat. Maybe it's because the article you're responding to is from THE COMICS JOURNAL, but there do seem to be value judgements here.

So what is the appeal of manga to this female crowd? Simply put--it's not American. It's foreign, it's exotic. To really get into it, it helps if you are willing to put in a lot of time learning at least rudimentary Japanese or learning about Japanese culture. The manga fangirls, to use Deppey's term, are the same group of girls who would have gotten into French cinema two decades ago.

As opposed to women liking it because it might be good, because the subject matter itself is appealing, because it's more readily available...

Also, dismissing manga's current popularity as a "fad" echoes the way most mainstream publications treated hip hop in the early '80s ("It's a fad! It will go away! No hip hop act will ever win a Grammy, because it'll be gone!").

Also, I think you might be missing the point of the original essay--manga isn't trying to be the salvation of American comics (and superhero comics in particular), and it's succeeding on its own in the marketplace. That, I think, might be the reason so many superhero-centric fans fear it so.

-ED

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

Ed:

I think you misunderstand: If the manga in question weren't good, even it's exoticness wouldn't attract and keep these girl readers.

But, the primary reason for the initial attraction is the lure of the exotic--"My parents don't get it; the kids outside my clique don't get it".

To either Danny (and I don't care which of you is real):

There are methods of criticism that do not involve insult. You might benefit from learning them.

Anonymous said...

I agree with you in that manga won't be the salvation of the American comic book. The only thing that'll save that are good American comics, and I don't mean in a 'rah rah america' kind of way. That's why I'm looking forward to Tokyopop's original line of graphic novels. Depending on how well they do, those might be the salvation of American comics.

I noticed that in the original post, you didn't state why manga are not comics. A follow-up post with your argument might help clarify things.

- Patrick

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

Patrick:

Yes, a follow-up post on that topic is in the works. I felt the initial essay was already on the verge of being too long for a good blog post, so I had to limit it to my primary argument.

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

For the record--having figured out how to do it, I have deleted all the posts from the various people claiming to be Danny Hellman (and I really don't care which was real, or if any were; they were all equally obnoxious), and my responses to them, when possible without deleting responses to other comments.

I'm going to keep a closer eye on this stuff from now on.

Andre said...

This is Andre Richard

I have to admit you had me going "whuh?" with the manga is not comics thing. That's like saying Love and Rockets isn't comics. Or Peanuts isn't comics.
Comics is a medium, not a genre [and manga is NOT a genre either BTW].

X-men has a TON in common with Shonen Jump titles in that- it's never ending, it's full of drama when it's at it's best [the 90's kind of killed that in comparison to the 80's issues], the only really major difference is that most SJ titles eventually end [there's a couple that have run for more thne 20 years though], and most are creator owned [some are based off video games, like Legendz].

The biggest hits, Naruto and DragonBall and Rumiko Takahashi's works, if you've ever read them, they feature no screen tone, standard traditional panel format [ie- grid format], traditional crosshatching inking, traditional word balloons and large wacky sound effects [in english or japanese], much like Bone, Pogo, Finder, X-men, or the Smurfs. The primary difference might be pacing, as DB and Naruto are published weekly, and thus have more pages to put in a month's content tehn X=men might. Though Rumiko usually does 16 page short stories with her characters, and two parters at 32 pages, then longer ones, so her pacing has more in common with US comics.


BTW- We had an anime club at my University- Majorly Female, all of whom bought multiple collections of Manga a month, some of whom were into Sandman, and only ONE ofwhom read superhero comics [and then it was just Runaways].

The main reason Girls like manga? Well, it's not really exocitism. I admit, I took japanese because of exposure ot manga, but it was also because I liked studying languages [I speak 4], and it's just general geekery, like when I took Aspects of PostModernism [a SciFi fiction course].

I think it's because of the characters, strong storytelling, the fact that it's actually marketed for them, made by them, and made to fulfill their needs for escapism that girls read manga. Shoujo manga has a ton in common with Romance novels, fantasy novles, scifi and sliceoflife teen drama- all genres Comics have been ignoring for the post part since the 70's.

Clearly you just don't get it, and I feel sorry for you. Hope you find fulfillment elsewhere.

Also noteworthy- Manga is the japanese word for comics, but they also use the word Comic too. And they have translated US comics there too, like Ghostworld, Ultimate Spiderman, Spawn, and Hellboy, where they're all just comics [or sometimes referred to as AmeriComi- or American Comics], and american superhero comics are read there with a cult audience. But they're still comics, just like the X-men cartoon was just anime [though they did make an awesome new opening animation, using the same character designs but with more fluid animation, and Pop song]

Mary said...

I think you have to understand that 'exoticism' can only carry you so far, and if that was the only thing drawing women to manga then the phenomenon would have ended already.

I'm a female manga fan, and I can freely admit that when I first picked up a manga seven years ago, it was because it was exotic. The difficulty with your theory is, if exoticism was the only reason for my liking it, then I wouldn't still be into it now; familiarity would the medium would have bread contempt. However, that did not happen. Once I'd gotten over "Oh, it's different", I still had many compelling reasons to read - the stories, the characters, even the art in some cases. You may not like manga yourself. You may be uncomfortable with it and wish it would go away. But the fact the women my age - late 20s - are reading comics, probably for the first time in their lives, is not something that should be dismissed so easily.

Incidentally, after I became a manga fan I did later get into (some) American comics. But though I like titles such as Spidey, Batman, and Maus, they'll probably never become as passionate with me as Nausicaa of the Vally of Wind. There just aren't any Nausicaas in the American comics market: a female heroine at the center of an action/adventure slash war epic? Even when the American market attempts such things, it tends to be along the lines of Tomb Raider. As if a woman can't be strong and in command unless she has gigantic boobies. From that perspective, can you really deny the attractivness of shoujo manga to women?

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

Andre:

It's not content that makes manga different from Euro-American comics...it's the conventions of the form in story-telling, perhaps better explained as a different visual vocabulary.

I'll explain further in the post I'm preparing for later this week.

Mary:

How many of your friends who got into manga because of its exoticness are still with it as you are? I think that's my point--that the initial attraction might be broad but once the need for that "otherness" fades, most give up the fad, just as they might give up the attraction to, say, a particular boy band.

Mary said...

Patrick: All of them, and not just female either.

Todd VerBeek said...

Hey, Pat... long time no read, since the rec.arts.comics days, eh? But I'm afraid you still don't make any sense, and your argument here is just as absurd as the debate over whether the manga newsgroup should be a subgroup of rec.arts.comics or not. The manga-elitists of the early 90s were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

Are there differences between east-asian manga and euro/american comics? Of course. But the differences within manga and within comics are greater than the differences between them. They're really fundamentally the same thing, and the differences are just examples of this thing we call "diversity". This distinction you're making is just as silly as racists bellowing about the differences between Blacks and Whites and Yellows and Reds and Browns, or sexists shrieking about the difference between males and females, as if they were fundamental and meaningful enough in the larger scheme of things to justify creating separate classes of people. They're not. I know you're too bloody stubborn (and various other things) to give up on this nonsense... but you should. No grudges here: just disappointment that you're still acting the fool.

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

Todd:

Why not wait until I make my case for the distinction to decide? This post is about why manga isn't the savior of the comics form in America that Deppey seems to think it is, especially in terms of long-term success among women.

The "manga-isn't-comics" is a side-issue that everyone has gotten off on and forced me into preparing a separate post to explain. I thought it was self-evident to anyone familiar with the visual vocabularies of both forms of graphic storytelling.

John Jakala said...

"I thought it was self-evident to anyone familiar with the visual vocabularies of both forms of graphic storytelling."

Maybe the fact that so many people who are familiar with both manga and EA comics think it's self-evident that manga are comics should tell you something.

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

"Maybe the fact that so many people who are familiar with both manga and EA comics think it's self-evident that manga are comics should tell you something."

Yeah, it tells me they're looking at the commonalities instead of the differences...sort of like looking at the 98% of DNA chimps share with humans and deciding that we must be the same--without looking at the actual creatures to see the obvious differences.

Mary said...

No, it means that you're trying to redefine the word "comics" to your own private meaning. Which doesn't really work very well, since literally no one else accepts your definition. You remind me of Lewis Carrol's Humpty Dumpty:

"And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!"

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"

"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

John Jakala said...

No, it means that no one else sees the point of redefining a well-understood term to suit your purposes. Talk about the differences between manga (i.e., Japanese comics) and EA-comics, fine. But it's a bit pointless to try to restructure accepted categories and terminology just so you can address those differences. You're the one distracting yourself from the topic you say you really wanted to discuss. No one else is 'forcing' you to sideline yourself with these semantic games.

Patrick Daniel O'Neill said...

I don't consider it semantic games--I consider it an important part of why the manga fad isn't really a benefit to the American comics industry or the American comics form.

John Jakala said...

So now it's not a semantic issue -- it's central to your thesis about manga being a mere passing fad. But just a couple comments up, you complained: "The 'manga-isn't-comics' is a side-issue that everyone has gotten off on and forced me into preparing a separate post to explain."

And in your original post, you seemed to acknowledge that your "manga aren't comics" claim would be met with skepticism. But now in this comments thread, you act surprised that everyone else can't see the "obvious differences" (differences so obvious that you're unable to muster any to support your position) that exclude Japanese comics from the larger comics superset.

Is it any wonder people aren't taking your argument seriously, Pat? You can't even keep your own position straight from moment to moment.

Ed Cunard said...

I don't consider it semantic games--I consider it an important part of why the manga fad isn't really a benefit to the American comics industry or the American comics form.

Or, in other words, manga isn't helping, supporting or drawing attention to the comics you like? Again, I think that's the problem--manga doesn't need to "save" the American comics form. American comics should save themselves.

Anonymous said...

Yeah let's burn those Asian crap! Let's get congress to ban'em! We just can't have foreign garbage corrupt our youth, now can't we? We must force all our children to read only good ol' American comics like Superman everyday! That'll save comics for sure. Wohoo! :)

Ka said...

You know, I'm a female comics reader and when I read that article, it was like he went into my head and dug out all the things I hate about American comics.

I love manga. I also love comics. I worked in a comic shop in high school (I'm 25 now) and I love certain American comics -- almost all from DC Vertigo (Sandman, Transmetropolitan, House of Secrets, Books of Magic) or indie publishers (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, Joe Psycho and Moo Frog, Scud the Disposable Assassin, Sam & Max). Why? Is it the exotic nature of Vertigo? Perhaps I'm just succumbing to a fad, like all shallow females?

If you'd pay attention, what he was saying is not that American comics need to ape manga's big eyes and such, but rather that perhaps Amerian comics should take a hint from Japanese companies as to what works in general nowadays.

For example:

1) Who wants to read a title by 50 different authors? Yeah, I'm TOTALLY getting into that! That way, if I like it, it'll change later, and if I don't like it, I know that someone in the future might do it better, but they'll have to either build off the canon I didn't like, or they'll have to pretend it didn't exist and retcon the whole thing. GREAT THAT SOUNDS FUN, SIGN ME UP TO BUY ALL OF IT. (Note: change of initial author/artist is why I stopped reading Witchblade and several other series.)

2) Oh, I can't actually buy it all because it's in 500 issues that are so collectable that I can't actually get them for under $20 each? And you only reprinted in book format some random selections that you think are important? Gee, I can see that you really want to get me interested in this character and story.

3) So I finally got all 500 issues and I see that the story is ridiculous because somehow Superman's never been on earth more than 30 years though I'm pretty sure he landed in 1910 or something. And has died a few times. And nothing actually ever changes because then you'd have to change the premise. WOW THIS IS ENJOYABLE FOR A NEW FAN TO GET INTO. I especially like how it never ends when it should and instead gets dragged out ridiculously for another 50 years. That was my favorite thing about Sandman, how it didn't end. OH WAIT IT DID. (Let's ignore the crappy spinoffs.)

4) I love superheros. Wait, no I don't. Except I did love Impulse and Young Justice, but they both got cancelled. Interestingly, both those titles strongly resisted crossovers (well, okay, YJ was just a giant crossover, but you did not need to read any of the other books to know what is going on). Spinoffs to explore interesting side plots or characters are great, but it sometimes seems like the mainstream American comics market is nothing BUT spinoffs (or "universes" as you call them). I'm sorry, you expect me to drop $3+ per chapter on 20 different titles just to try to get into reading your new book? No thanks, I'll leave it to people who've been reading for 50 years.

5) So wow, I'm really into this cool title from Marvel or DC or whoever. I'd love to get my friends into it. Unfortunately there's no way in hell that I'm loaning them my 50 current issues that are carefully bagged and boarded in my basement. If they drop #7 in the bathtub or accidentally rip it or something, I'm screwed because I certainly can't head down to the bookstore and buy another one for a reasonable price (or at all).

6) Okay, so I just started reading this new series, let's call it Battle Chasers, and gee! I think the issues may come out once a year or something! Fun.

7) I was reading this title Cerberus, but the hatred the author has for women kind of put me off it after a while, which was too bad. If you want to sell books to girls that may possibly not be the way to go.

_____

Basically, there are a lot of things the American industry could do to be less insular and more appealing not just to women, but to EVERYONE -- but they refuse. And while they refuse, I'll keep buying manga, because I can.

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elricmv said...

Myself I believe that the succes of manga especially in the last couple of years depends on material possesion, the cards,action figures, and models
I think that all Manga artistes are jumping on the TCG/CCG band wagon I think the material possesion comes across more with the male readers then female. and also not to be sexest or anything the female crowd always seems to drift towards the romance/love area of comics/manga. When was the last time you saw spidey on a date with mary-jane for the entire comic...
-ElricMV

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Just because manga and american comics are not the same doens't mean that one could not or should not inspire the other. Let's not forget that though it is an entirely different medium in and of itself, manga comics WERE inspired originally by american works combined with tradnitional japanes eart styles - you can still see this in the work/.

I think it's important we don't seperate manga and american comics entirely. They ARE different, but it's that kind of seperationalist attitude which makes it difficult for modern western aniamtion students such as myself to have difficult involving manga and anime in her work without reiceving criticism.

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